tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post4146810822085134038..comments2023-11-03T14:59:31.910+00:00Comments on The Growlery: Kookaburras and other fossilsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-85497361958080942602012-05-23T12:11:46.696+00:002012-05-23T12:11:46.696+00:00Intriguing! I fondly remember the kookaburra song ...Intriguing! I fondly remember the kookaburra song from school days, and didn't struggle to understand the meaning (being reared on a steady diet of nature documentaries may have something to do with that). But have a niggling memory of talking about the fact that gay used to mean happy, at the time. Whether our teacher was aware that this meaning was becoming lost to a new generation, I don't know.<br /><br />The word seems to have taken on a whole variety of meanings even in my own (late twenties) generation, most people I know will still use the word gay to describe homosexuality, with no slur intended, but many now move away from it since it has been used as a slur "that's so gay" referring to something being bad - a usage that always makes me wince, so I tend to consciously avoid the word.Jasminenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-59751207013987272252009-08-20T07:17:38.145+00:002009-08-20T07:17:38.145+00:00Ray: you're not the first to have asked what w...Ray: you're not the first to have asked what words they use for homosexual, so I went back and asked.<br /><br />Anonymous: you're wrong about them being the sort of words you can't use in polite company, except in the sense that you can't use them at all, because...<br /><br />These teenagers turn out not to have any words at all of their own for "homosexual". They seemed to regard the question as odd, indicative that I was unhealthily obsessing on the subject.<br /><br />To summarise the various replies: "We don't; why would we? We don't bother to use different words for people who like different kinds of food, and we don't bother to use different words for people who like different kinds of sex."<br /><br />These are not young people who ever hesitate to vehemently express their many prejudices, so I can only conclude that <i>this particular</i> prejudice, in <i>this particular</i> area has ceased to operate.<br /><br />Yesterday I asked a couple of entirely different teenagers whom I know well (home context, not work, and in a small town rather than the city where I work with the other group) how, if they had to do so, they would refer to homosexuality. They agreed that it would depend on context. In a formal setting, they would say "homosexual" for males and "lesbian" for women. In an informal setting they would say "he prefers boys" or "she prefers girls".Felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179787011325615414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-31963450942699646692009-08-19T20:25:01.996+00:002009-08-19T20:25:01.996+00:00Yep: a large grain of truth, but definitely over-s...Yep: a large grain of truth, but definitely over-simplifying. <i>OED</i> says:<br /><br /><i>Origin uncertain. Perhaps related to Old English bæddel hermaphrodite, effeminate or homosexual man (quantity of stem vowel uncertain: see BADLING n.1): it has been suggested that BAD adj. could perhaps show the reflex of bæddel, with loss of -l as also in MUCH adj. and WENCH n., although the phonetic environment differs significantly; with the semantic development perhaps compare more general use of BADLING n.1 (a derivative of bæddel) as a term of abuse or contempt, although this is poorly attested; with the assumed development of adjectival use compare WRETCH adj., ARMING n.1</i>Ray Girvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-73850977646172432822009-08-19T18:35:16.452+00:002009-08-19T18:35:16.452+00:00Anonymous: "How many people know that "b...Anonymous: "How many people know that "bad" used to mean "effeminate man"?<br /><br />It's certainly possible (and one theory) that "bad" came from ME "badde" and it's also possible that in turn came from OE "bæddel" and/or "bædling" ... but by no means certain.Felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179787011325615414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-64281728231234732392009-08-19T13:12:40.687+00:002009-08-19T13:12:40.687+00:00How many people know that "bad" used to ...How many people know that "bad" used to mean "effeminate man"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-54391169972327505312009-08-19T10:42:42.493+00:002009-08-19T10:42:42.493+00:00@Ray: I have no idea, but I'd imagine they def...@Ray: I have no idea, but I'd imagine they definitely weren't the kind of words one would use in polite company.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-67721756382630755322009-08-18T15:00:46.110+00:002009-08-18T15:00:46.110+00:00They regard that meaning as now very nearly a ling...<i>They regard that meaning as now very nearly a linguistic fossil, to be used only when talking to “teachers, and old people”.</i><br /><br />Pertaining to this, I'd just been asked, did you find out what term(s) they use to mean homosexual-gay?Ray Girvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-70221761876109541152009-07-30T17:19:33.131+00:002009-07-30T17:19:33.131+00:00Development on this at Kookaburra fossil exposed.Development on this at <a href="http://segalbooks.blogspot.com/2009/07/kookaburra-fossil-exposed.html" rel="nofollow">Kookaburra fossil exposed</a>.Ray Girvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-32896214705111885592009-05-22T01:12:23.972+00:002009-05-22T01:12:23.972+00:00Much to ponder in this post. It is interesting tha...<I>Much to ponder in this post. It is interesting that in a number of our recent collective posts we have used images and literature from the past (sometimes beyond the memory of the writers) to embellish current ideas.</I>Interesting, given the very different backgrounds and foci; but it appears to come from a common interest in the way different threads of the past weave their way into the present.<br /><br /><I>Wonder Woman means very little to someone who was born after, say, 1970. To others, who remember the comics from the 40's, the startling concept of a "super" female is firmly implanted.</I>Well, it's one of those things that goes with one's vintage. I didn't encounter the originals (which come across as very fetishy, and naively drawn) but mainly know Wonder Woman through the campy TV version with the wholesome Lynda Carter. Younger comic readers will know the new revisionist versions (I love the strong and scary <A HREF="http://www.comicfortress.com/mm5/popups/CP1326%20Wonder%20Woman-Mythology.jpg" REL="nofollow">Alex Ross incarnation</A>, though some reviews have described it as a bit fascistic). But with superheroines being commonplace, it's hard to appreciate how radical the idea must have been. I may well post something on this.Ray Girvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-2269117084463247262009-05-17T14:38:00.000+00:002009-05-17T14:38:00.000+00:00Much to ponder in this post. It is interesting tha...Much to ponder in this post. It is interesting that in a number of our recent collective posts we have used images and literature from the past (sometimes beyond the memory of the writers) to embellish current ideas. Wonder Woman means very little to someone who was born after, say, 1970. To others, who remember the comics from the 40's, the startling concept of a "super" female is firmly implanted. JSBlog seems an unlimited store of hooks to earlier literature. But mostly cultural references from before our time have little meaning (think how shocking a "black" President would have been to the average 19th century American; or even the idea of an independent India to the Victorian). <br /><br />On the other hand, in many ways I feel as if I have lived in those times mainly by reading Anthony Trollope. I have even gained an insight into my ancestor's plight in the greatest Irish potato famine (Trollope's <I>Castle Richmond</I>). <br /><br />But, I wander. Still, we should continue to examine these "hooks" to the past which, in many ways, are similar to the serial photographs of "Just one thing after another." i.e., serial photographs tell a story better than a single one <I>or</I> a video.Dr. Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06255898610620668624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-36476715996212425712009-05-14T17:09:00.000+00:002009-05-14T17:09:00.000+00:00Well, this is the version I remember:
Kookaburra....Well, this is the version I remember:<br /><br /><A HREF="http://www.segalbooks.com/kookaburra.mp3" REL="nofollow">Kookaburra.mp3</A>. <br /><br />I guess with the current meaning of "gay" it needs revising:<br /><br />Kookaburra waits for the 10:03<br />Charting all the trains that arrive is he.<br />Graph! Kookaburra, graph!<br />How gay your life must be.Ray Girvanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05556764642402680159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-40861375185887187172009-05-14T14:36:00.000+00:002009-05-14T14:36:00.000+00:00It's interesting that the two versions scan differ...It's interesting that the two versions scan differently, the third line differs by three syllables and the fourth by one.<br /><br />Presumably, if we met to sing them (!) we would find corresponding differences in the tunes to which we learnt them.<br /><br />Such variations are common in folk song, of course ... even within a single academic year at one Australian school, I learnt five different sets of words and three different tunes for <I>Waltzing Matilda</I>.Felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13179787011325615414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14600985.post-9663179219202024992009-05-14T14:29:00.000+00:002009-05-14T14:29:00.000+00:00Oh, yes, that one's also indelibly in my memory, f...Oh, yes, that one's also indelibly in my memory, from infants' school. Version we did was:<br /><br />Kookaburra sits in an old gum tree<br />Merry little king of the bush is he.<br />Laugh, Kookaburra, laugh, Kookaburra.<br />O how gay your life must be.<br /><br />It came back to me quite recently, as on Classic FM they often play a Beethoven (I think) piece that has a motif identical to the "Laugh, Kookaburra, laugh" phrase.Ray Girvanhttp://segalbooks.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.com